In this episode of Make Yourself @ Work, Matt Tverberg sits down with Julian Douglas, Director of Workplace Operations and Real Estate at Ripple, the enterprise blockchain and crypto solutions company. Julian leads workplace strategy and real estate across Ripple's 19 global offices, a career that started in the mailroom and worked its way up through facilities management. Julian shares what it takes to run a workplace at a fast-scaling global company, where offices around the world need to feel unmistakably like Ripple while still reflecting their local cultures.
In this episode of Make Yourself @ Work, Matt Tverberg sits down with Julian Douglas, Director of Workplace Operations and Real Estate at Ripple, the enterprise blockchain and crypto solutions company. Julian leads workplace strategy and real estate across Ripple's 19 global offices, a career that started in the mailroom and worked its way up through facilities management.
Julian shares what it takes to run a workplace at a fast-scaling global company, where offices around the world need to feel unmistakably like Ripple while still reflecting their local cultures.
He dives into how his team builds that consistency across borders, how they use data and feedback to keep spaces working as the company evolves, and why hospitality instincts are what he hires for. Some key lessons from the conversation include: a global portfolio stays cohesive through intentional design, feedback is everywhere if you keep your ears open, and flexible spaces are the best protection against a fast-changing company.
This episode is essential listening for workplace and facilities leaders, corporate real estate professionals, and anyone running operations across a growing office portfolio.
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Quotes
“ There's a right way, there's a wrong way, then there's a Ripple way. We really stand by that. So when you walk into our offices, you might see some quirky stuff… but for us, it works. And that's literally how you become a market disruptor.”
"One thing I tell my team is it shouldn't feel like you're walking into a different office. It's Ripple, right? We want local flavor, of course, but there's those key elements that in the back of your mind a general person may not pick up on, but they're design intents that you'll walk by and make you feel like you're in a Ripple office."
“There's a phrase that is out now, being comfortable being uncomfortable. We definitely have to be in that mindset and understand that any project or thing that you're working on may switch, especially when you're in a fast-paced environment, and that's okay."
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Timestamps
(00:44) Julian's path from the mailroom to director
(03:50) What Ripple actually does
(06:52) Keeping 19 global offices consistent
(12:47) Lessons from moving Ripple's headquarters
(18:29) Why every build schedule needs a buffer
(21:08) Physical security at a crypto company
(24:16) The thankless job and finding validation
(26:58) Ripple's 10-day hybrid policy
(32:18) Where AI shows up in workplace ops
(40:42) Building trust: the Singapore gold standard
(46:15) Advice for early-career workplace pros
(48:58) How Julian Makes Himself @ Work
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Links
Connect with the guest and host on LinkedIn!
[00:00:00] Matt Tverberg: Welcome to Make Yourself @ Work. I'm your host, Matt Tverberg. Very excited for our guest today. I've had the pleasure of having multiple conversations with, with our guest. He is longtime Envoy customer and really experienced in this industry, in the workplace industry, so I look forward to our discussion today.
But with that being said, I'm joined by Julian Douglas, the Director of Workplace Operations and Real Estate at Ripple. Julian, great to see you.
[00:00:40] Julian Douglas: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:00:40] Matt Tverberg: Thank you for being here.
[00:00:41] Julian Douglas: Thank you for having me. That was quite the intro.
[00:00:44] Matt Tverberg: I appreciate that. Well, I'm just getting started. A little bit about your background.
Julian is very experienced. He, as I mentioned, is the Director of Workplace Operations and Real Estate at Ripple, where he leads workplace strategy and real estate across the company's global footprint. And I think out of all of our guests, you have the most real estate that you're responsible for. It's 19 offices.
You were promoted to director in July of last year. Congrats.
[00:01:09] Julian Douglas: Thank you.
[00:01:09] Matt Tverberg: And that came from, honestly, a lot of hard work, and I've been able to be on the outskirts of seeing that and how we've been partnering together. And now you're a senior... or from a senior manager to director, but your career started from kind of a bottoms-up approach.
So it's like- Yep ... a story of hard work. So just, like, talk to me a little bit about how you came up through the ranks and then a little bit about Ripple and what Ripple's up to.
[00:01:36] Julian Douglas: I think that it's definitely a story of, uh, bottom-up, you know, climbing the corporate ladder, but obviously th- through different, uh, industries and jobs that I did.
I went to school, um, at night, worked during the day. Um, I was a father really quick, so I had to, uh, you know, take the helm and kind of be responsible and go to school after work. Um, so yeah, I started out in the mail room. And, you know, uh, someone said it best to me that, "Hey, you just don't work in the mailroom.
You're like the central logistics head." Uh, I kind of like that title. Um, and I did that in multiple industries, you know. So we were offering a lot of services from not only just, you know, dropping mail in, in cubbies, right? We did, uh, print jobs for, for big, uh, c- corporations and, and pitches and, and whatnot.
So doing that in every job that I went to or every lo- industry that I went to, it was kind of held a higher position. Then from that work, went over into facilities management where I was a facility manager, and then that kind of blossomed into a workplace, uh, manager. And now, um, Ripple has trusted me with the helm, like, kind of running the real estate portfolio.
I kind of look at it as when I... I have this weird niche, like when I walk into a building or offices, I look around and I want to understand what's behind the wall, how the system works, and how that all incorporates to when people walk through the door and they walk into any space, whether it's your home, that restaurant, or your office, like how it all comes to- to ki- together to provide that experience.
[00:02:58] Matt Tverberg: What are some of the interesting things you see then when you walk into to a building?
[00:03:04] Julian Douglas: Uh, besides being nerded out about code compliance stuff? Um, honestly, the design and, like, what- Mm ... it means. Now, by far I'm not a designer, but understanding what the company wants and what it speaks for, like, what's its footprint when it goes out into market, that's different for everybody that you may work for or for who, whether that's a CEO or a panel of, uh, leaders that kinda are building something from scratch or revamping, have a revision.
Um, the office environment is very important. It's the one thing that people walk into for the very first day, and they're, "Mm." They sometimes know if they wanna work in this environment or not. Whether it's a young and scrappy company or a well-established one, that is literally, like, their footprint that they leave in people's emotions.
[00:03:48] Matt Tverberg: Absolutely. And having 19 locations, you probably have a pretty keen eye at this point of what, like, makes a good Ripple office and the location. Like, what goes into that decision right now, and, like, how has, I guess, has it evolved since you've opened so many of them? Yeah.
[00:04:05] Julian Douglas: Different. Uh, we have a little slogan at work.
You know, "There's a right way, there's a wrong way, then there's a Ripple way." Uh, we really stand by that, so when you walk into our offices, you'll might see some quirky stuff that is like, "Huh, this is different," but for us it works. Um, and that's literally how you become, like, a market disruptor, right? Like you coming with something different.
You're not too sure if it works, but ultimately it kind of puts all, puts it all together and it does work.
[00:04:31] Matt Tverberg: S- and with that in mind, I ... Folks may not know what Ripple does, so I guess give me a little bit of a background about, you know, what Ripple does and your global footprint.
[00:04:41] Julian Douglas: A lot of people think Ripple and they think crypto right away, of like, it's a crypto company.
Yes, we are in that industry, but for the most part, um, Ripple provides financial services of product suites to multiple B2B companies, uh, to kind of move money in, as fast as information does. So you think about sending an email. Uh, moving money from border to border shouldn't take two to three days or a typical, uh, lens that you would on a Swift network.
With a Ripple product and, and the blockchain, it just two seconds. Um, friendly plug, if you go onto LinkedIn, there's Crypto in a Minute by our leaders that kinda explain this in one minute. They do a much better job at me- than me at that. Uh, my job is to kind of build offices and experiences, but the company's evolving very, very fast.
Uh, as you know, we acquired about five companies last year, uh, towards it in Q4 w- as a different product suite that we offer to our clients, and it's definitely given me a lot of, a lot more work in my t- in my, uh, p- purview.
[00:05:41] Matt Tverberg: And as you acquire companies, I'm sure that's an unique challenge to integrate them, right?
'Cause it's like a ... You may want them to k- maintain some of their original company swagger, but like how, how has that been an interesting-
[00:05:56] Julian Douglas: Yeah, no, we, we let that stay for a little bit. No. Every, every acquisati- acquisition is different. It's challenging. Uh, shout out to, uh, our partners over on the IT side.
I think they really have the grunt of that work when it comes to integrations and, like, taking their platforms and making it all work as one. Uh, workplace facilities, we are usually at the end of the bit, um, kinda looking at their offices and, like, either how we can update them, get rid of them, whatever it might work for us.
Uh, but understanding their culture and how it's gonna resonate with ours is a su- one that's super important. Luckily, Ripple is a fun place to work, so they usually walk into our offices and like, "Wow, we, we get all this?" And it works for them. So I've, I've had the lucky part of that part being a little bit of the easier side.
Uh, but obviously on the real estate side, understanding their offices and what the deal was that I didn't make and trying to make sure that it's right going forward for the company and our portfolio is super important.
[00:06:52] Matt Tverberg: Totally. You touched a little bit about how you got into facilities. So I guess one thing I'd love to hear a little bit more on is, like, what makes you stay in, into that line of work?
[00:07:02] Julian Douglas: There's one key part of my role or my job that makes me stay that I really, really do look forward to, um, is opening new offices and seeing that ex- that first expression, um, from people when they walked in, walk in. And then, like, day to day too, when people bring their families or their kids or mom into the office and they see our office, and I see that expression.
They have no idea who I am or, or the team that's responsible for it, but I love seeing the s- hearing the side comments and really having that resonate. That's literally what keeps me in there. And n- tomorrow is different every day. You don't know what you'll wake up and what email will be in your, uh, inbox.
[00:07:38] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. And with that, I wanted to actually ask about how you create that consistent experience that is super rewarding for you, right? And for those that may not know, like, you have offices at San Francisco, New York, London, Singapore, Sydney, São Paulo. Gets harder as companies scale, right, to create the consistency across cultural borders.
So how do you balance creating a consistent Ripple experience- While also maintaining some of that local vibe Oh,
[00:08:08] Julian Douglas: man. It's very hard to do that. It gets a little more challenges a- as you enter different markets. Obviously, local regulation and code kinda can stop you at some points, but honestly, creating playbooks, standardization, uh, having the correct team, not only internally but externally, partners like yourselves that help us scale globally so that we can have that same solution from the time you walk in the door, super important.
Um, but yeah, we continue to thrive and have that 'cause we're such a globally distributed company. When people go from New York to San Francisco, I don't- One thing I tell my team is, "It shouldn't feel like you're walking into a different office. It's, it's Ripple," right? We want local flavor, of course, but there's those key elements that in the back of your mind a regular person may not pick up on- Mm
or a general person may not pick up on, but they're design intents that you'll walk by and make you feel like you're in a Ripple office.
[00:09:01] Matt Tverberg: Right. And what do you think is one of the easiest things to keep consistent, and then maybe, maybe one that's been surprisingly difficult?
[00:09:10] Julian Douglas: Easily consistent I don't wanna nerd out, but a little bit of maybe, uh, kitchen layouts, particularly why equipment is placed next to each other.
But in that same vein, it's very, very difficult to get, like, Topo Chico in every single office 'cause that's like, you walk into our office, we have this big To- Topo Chico label. It's not labeled, but that's kinda like the San Francisco drink at Ripple. But you try to get that in London, it's not happening
You know? So, uh, we can't cop- we can't carbon copy that across the board, but we will try to... And again, that's where we kinda allow that local flavor to come in, um, and provide some local snacks or whatever the case may be. Um, furniture is very important, too. Um, there's certain qualities within workstations that drive, um, what your office looks like and how it operates.
Um, and also programming, what we have, um, whether it's a hotel desk or designed, uh, s- one-to-one seating and layout. You know, we don't do any private offices at Ripple. I know some companies do, but we don't have that. Our CEO and, uh, C-suite people sit right, uh, out, out in the field with us, so we keep that throughout all of our offices.
[00:10:21] Matt Tverberg: How do you go about understanding the local flavor? Like, h- are you Gathering feedback from the, the, your colleagues there? 'Cause that can be the biggest challenge is like, we don't know, we're not there to experience, and if you're doing this all over the globe, what has been some of your tricks to-
[00:10:41] Julian Douglas: I spend a weekend out there by myself.
[00:10:43] Matt Tverberg: Okay.
[00:10:43] Julian Douglas: No, I'm kidding. I'm ki- Um, no, when we engage in like new, uh, locations, we definitely lean on local vendor support. Um, and of course the, the local team members on, at Ripple we talk to. We get a pool of people that we'll send a questionnaire to. We'll get their insights on something. Uh, and I kinda learned that early on in lease negotiations there's some things that I might ask for, they're like, "Oh, we don't do that here, buddy."
You know, so I find that out even from that phase, and I kinda get the ways of the land of like, oh, this is gonna be different. Um, yeah, and that kinda resonates into what we can do. There's local code, but by the time you open those doors, you pretty much get a gist of what it is out there.
[00:11:25] Matt Tverberg: Any city been more surprisingly difficult than others?
[00:11:29] Julian Douglas: As, you know what? As of right now, we had a call today, and Chicago code is very, very different. The things you can do there, or, I'm sorry, the things you cannot do there surprised me, and I'm like, "Why?" Um, so you know, the moarning, learning that has been a, a little bit of a challenge for me b- or for our team right now, but we, we work through it.
[00:11:52] Matt Tverberg: And when you say things you canna- is this because you're get into your space and you wanna-
[00:11:57] Julian Douglas: Yeah, we have our- ...
[00:11:58] Matt Tverberg: evolve the space to
[00:11:59] Julian Douglas: be
[00:11:59] Matt Tverberg: more
[00:11:59] Julian Douglas: in
[00:11:59] Matt Tverberg: line
[00:11:59] Julian Douglas: with- We have our standards, and they're like-
[00:12:00] Matt Tverberg: Yeah ... "
[00:12:00] Julian Douglas: Not, that's not gonna work here." So we have to adjust and shift in real time and-
[00:12:05] Matt Tverberg: Got it ...
[00:12:05] Julian Douglas: you know, we like to build things or do things that are scalable, um, and you know, that we can, uh, apply almost in every office.
Things that, again, general staff members wouldn't notice, but we have our standards for a reason, elevations, et cetera. Yeah, you can't do that everywhere. You find that out really quick.
[00:12:21] Matt Tverberg: Oh, that's cool. Would've never, would've never thought that.
[00:12:25] Julian Douglas: London's another place, too. I love those guys, but yeah. They have some weird, weird insurance res- restrictions out there just to do anything.
[00:12:33] Matt Tverberg: I was with a friend who works in insurance this weekend, and knowing what he knows about codes and yeah, it was an insightful conversation to say the least. Well, I've been to your headquarters here, 130,000 square feet in a super historic building. It's a really awesome space. But you had to move at one point here.
And when you move at that scale, what did that teach you?
[00:13:00] Julian Douglas: Oof You can't do it all yourself.
[00:13:04] Matt Tverberg: Ah.
[00:13:04] Julian Douglas: Um, no, that was early on in my career at Ripple. Um, again, I was a s- uh, as you stated before, I was a senior manager there. That move was, uh, it was a big one for sure. I think that was a starting point where Ripple became into its new era.
Um, we were at 315 Montgomery. You know, obviously we moved over to Battery, right near the Battery. Um, and being that we are the sole tenants of that building, a lot of the onus is on us from maintenance or just kinda upkeep of the building. We don't have, like, property manager or people that we can call.
We pretty much are running that building ourselves. So the operational components there were a little bit of a challenge to set up in the beginning, but it kinda set the stage from an operational perspective of, like, what we should be replicating in other, other offices. Even if it doesn't apply one-to-one, we know what we can negate or add, and it was just a tremendous move.
Like, I remember that opening week, people that have been with the company for a while, like, were in tears just to kinda see the evolution of Ripple. It was... We used to call it Ripple 2.0 back then, um, when we moved into that space because everything that you saw at the old office you didn't see there. It was kinda shedding some old skin and- Sure
coming into the new.
[00:14:18] Matt Tverberg: And I imagine that makes you appreciate your property management partners even more when-
[00:14:25] Julian Douglas: Yes, for sure. They are, they are key partners in any development or any experience in any building that we are in around the world. Um, definitely appreciate all of them.
[00:14:35] Matt Tverberg: You, and you touched on this a little bit already, but you did do a lot of acquisitions even in the past handful of years.
Mm-hmm. But what would you say is, like, one thing that has been harder than most people would think?
[00:14:51] Julian Douglas: Pleasing everyone.
[00:14:53] Matt Tverberg: Uh,
[00:14:54] Julian Douglas: yeah, it's hard. Uh, you can't please everyone, but, um, obviously anybody in this profession does their best. That's what we thrive to do every day. Um, everybody that walks through that door is our customer. So you could imagine, uh, waking up and finding out that your company just got acquired by someone else.
There's a lot of questions. There's a lot of what-ifs. They wanna know things right away. So challenge is getting communication across precise, clear, on time, and enough. How much communication is enough? Sure. So that they can feel comfortable about the new world that they're gonna step into. Again, once they step into the world, they're like, "Wow, look at this."
They, they love it. Um, but that's not gonna be the same for every company, right? Right. So it's kind of setting expectations and providing the lays of the land, at least from our part for facilities workplace. Uh, again, IT has the longest one of integrating all the IT systems and platform, but, uh, yeah, it's...
[00:15:51] Matt Tverberg: I could see in a world like that the biggest thing would be how do we remove the, the fear and the uncertainty.
[00:15:58] Julian Douglas: Yeah. And then allowing them to adjust, too. You can't just kinda have them walk into your door and say, "Everything you used to do is, like, out, and you have to do it our way as well." There's certain things that they, they got acquired for a reason, right?
Right. They're pretty good at things that they do or that would cause that kind of interest. So having conversations, um, understanding how they do things, and maybe it's something that we never thought about, and we invest in that, or we take it on. Or other things are like, "Oh, no, we do... We're gonna either marry those two ideas, or one, one idea's gonna win."
It's not always gonna be ours. It can be theirs, too.
[00:16:32] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. What a cool evolution of a company, 'cause then it's like you become a conglomerate of all of these organizations you-
[00:16:38] Julian Douglas: Yeah ...
[00:16:39] Matt Tverberg: pick the best- Pick the best ... things to keep.
[00:16:40] Julian Douglas: Pick the
[00:16:41] Matt Tverberg: best. It's gonna be a fun, fun ongoing experiment it sounds like. Yeah.
[00:16:46] Julian Douglas: I'm sure there'll be more
[00:16:48] Matt Tverberg: So real estate decisions, you're involved in a ton of these, and it's typically one of the biggest financial commitments an organization can make. Mm-hmm. And that obviously brings the C-suite into the discussion and into the fold to have these conversations. When you partner with leadership and set them up s- for success, usually they have to be discussed months and months in advance, right?
If you plan on being in a city, this has to be a, a long runway. Like, what do those types of conversations look like and how... What would be your advice for someone prepping for something like that?
[00:17:27] Julian Douglas: Everybody has a different budget. So, uh, I'll start off with that aspect. Um, Ripple prides itself in investing into ourselves and into other companies as well.
Um, we do expect a lot. We have a high bar. Our brokers kind of can say, uh, we got champagne taste, but there's a reason why we have that kind of taste and why we build offices the way we do. Um, but usually starting off with a financial a- analysis, but, uh, our leadership trusts our team to go out and find the best asset that will fit within our portfolio, not only for, for us, but, like, for local talent, for people that may need to move there.
Something that our clients and pro- potential customers walk into and, like, know that we're here and we mean business. So by the time I select probably the three that I think is best, the financial analysis will go up to C-suite. They'll take a look at it. Usually it's okay. And we kind of go forward and we'll, we'll get our CapEx budget and push things through and have a fun build process.
[00:18:29] Matt Tverberg: What does that build process from start to finish, and, and I'm sure it varies by building, but do you set yourself a, a timeframe of, like, okay-
[00:18:40] Julian Douglas: You ever built a house or had a little fun project at home?
[00:18:43] Matt Tverberg: You in San Francisco, you think I built a house? Oh,
[00:18:45] Julian Douglas: no. Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. Even a renovation project maybe, um- Someday.
I always laugh because I'll get an initial schedule, and I laugh, and I and I kinda plus two to three months for any schedule that comes my way. Um, whether it's building from the ground up or doing a renovation, once you start swinging hammers, there's always something that is inev- end of... Like, something will happen.
Something's gonna come up. You find asbestos. You find beam missing, structural issues, the GC quit. You know, no matter where you go, there's always gonna be a little bit of different variances that may come your way that you will not account for, whether it's that freight elevator that goes out of service middle of the weekend, and you, like, had to pull these thousand-pound doors up to your suite, and now you can't.
You gotta... Anything can come up that can affect the schedule. Um, but yeah, every one is different, has its own complexities, fun in its own way. Mm. Learn a lot, um, between different companies in a way that they do things or have done it for other people or other companies and how you can apply it there. Um, but yeah, that, that thing...
That's the special part. You asked me what keeps me in facilities. Like, yeah, that is a part that when you're coming from, like, that maintenance side and, like, actually building it and seeing it come to evolution from that initial walkthrough where it's a raw space or maybe a space that another company left behind, and you're turning it into your own, that's special.
[00:20:09] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, that sounds like something that would keep me coming back, for sure.
[00:20:14] Julian Douglas: Yeah. It also adds the gray hairs, but- ... you know what I mean? But yeah.
[00:20:19] Matt Tverberg: So when you s- stay within that sweet spot of a extended two, three months, that's a win then, huh, if you- Yeah ... are within that type of fluctuation of what you anticipated?
[00:20:29] Julian Douglas: Yeah. The, I can... I've done a lot of builds, and I can count on one hand where we probably either met right at that initial schedule, or we did better than, like, the added time. Um, and those are very rare, but yeah, they happen. And then there's always come day two stuff that you'll probably just
[00:20:45] Matt Tverberg: like- Right
[00:20:46] Julian Douglas: "Oh, you know, the, the employees aren't gonna... They're not gonna see that over there. We can fix that on a weekend or something, um, and no one will notice." But yeah.
[00:20:55] Matt Tverberg: It seems like it... It's, again, predicting the unpredictability in these types- Yep ... of situations. Well, crypto is high stakes stuff, high attention industry.
[00:21:06] Julian Douglas: Absolutely.
[00:21:08] Matt Tverberg: From a physical security standpoint, what does running workplaces look like at a company like Ripple that maybe you wouldn't see at other more traditional tech companies?
[00:21:19] Julian Douglas: Well, we have a great security team, um, so shout out to my partner over there, the director of physical security. We partner together a lot.
I think anywhere the experience, uh, for our users, the company is very important. Also, we want to keep our places secure. Um, but you know, we're SOC 2 compliant. We use partners like Envoy to kind of keep us that way for visitors that come in. Um, but we, like I said earlier, every day you wake up, there might be a unknown, but in the crypto environment we do
You might get some guests that like inve- invested into our native token, um, is unhappy to pu- show up to the office. Like, "I want my money." And we're like, "Oh, you know, you have stocks. It goes up and down. It's kind of the same. It's volatile, right?" So We do our best to kinda make sure that we are locked tight within our environment with any office that we do.
We do analysis on crime in the area. We do a, a security scope walkthrough of, like, how people get into the building. We partner very, very well with the building personnel as well, understanding their procedures for health and safety, evacuation, um, even security protocol, what to do in certain instances, and we share our knowledge and playbooks together, and we build off of that.
And we... Every time we do it, we get better.
[00:22:36] Matt Tverberg: With incident management, that's something that I find super interesting because that's... You wanna prep for the worst and hope for the best type of experience, right? Mm-hmm. Like, how... Are you doing some type of mock run-through of different hypothetical scenarios with the security team?
Has that s- happened?
[00:22:53] Julian Douglas: The ones that I can know about, yes.
[00:22:55] Matt Tverberg: Okay.
[00:22:56] Julian Douglas: Um, but, you know, they definitely have in that world, uh, some things that they do that are a little bit on the quieter end. But from initiation, you know, whenever, whenever we do our commuter analysis to understand impacts for office moves or new offices, same in tandem, they will look into threat intelligence to understand that area, that ar- zip code, what native crimes might be there, if any.
Nowhere is perfect. Um, but understanding that, you know, companies like this that infiltrate and invest into a neighborhood usually will come with some type of security. Um, well, the security of being in that neighborhood, not, like, physical security outside. But yeah, I mean, Ripple, we partner with our local, uh, police units u- too.
We... Our cameras in SF, you know, al- also are tied into SFPD, so we do what we can to kinda help the community and the neighborhoods that we are invested in.
[00:23:49] Matt Tverberg: Oh, that's great. As you... So you share footage with-
[00:23:52] Julian Douglas: Yeah.
[00:23:53] Matt Tverberg: Oh, that's cool.
[00:23:54] Julian Douglas: For s- SF. I mean- Right,
[00:23:55] Matt Tverberg: right ... it's not for everyone else. Sure, sure. But that- Yeah
that's interesting. What's something people outside of facilities and operations consistently underestimate about running a workplace where security and confidentiality, which is key in your industry matter just as much as the employee experience.
[00:24:16] Julian Douglas: I'm sure partnering with people in this world, you probably heard this phrase, it's a thankless job.
You know, anybody that is on my team, I say, "If you expect a thank you, then, you know, you're probably on the wrong side of the operation."
[00:24:29] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:24:29] Julian Douglas: We do things day to day that protect and give great environments for people to come and do their best work, but we're, we don't always get that acknowledgement. Um, and I think that's probably the hardest part of it.
Um, but again, there's other ways to seek that validation, and seeing those smiles on people's faces or collecting that feedback. And when that feedback for whatever program that you initiated is usually upwards of that 85%, that's, that's the thank you that you get, and you understand that you're learning things and doing things differently and evolving the process every single time.
[00:25:00] Matt Tverberg: How frequently are you going about gathering feedback to make program adjustments and add new ones or dump ones maybe that aren't being, aren't resonating with your employee base as much?
[00:25:13] Julian Douglas: Very, very frequently. Um, we actually just, uh, put out a new service where we have those little touch button smile that, uh, within our cafeterias and, and certain high touchpoint areas, and it goes back into a spreadsheet that we look at, and we get people's data in real time all the time.
We also have a selected group of panel of people that we go out to for each of the departments and kind of get their feedback at all times. And I have my unsolicited ways of going around and, you know, tapping people's shoulders or even just, like, having lunch and just, like, general conversation and just hearing.
Or whether I'm in my bathroom washing hands and someone's commenting on something, I note that, and I go back to the team and say, "Hey, we need to change this. I just overheard..." So I keep my ears open all the time through any different means.
[00:26:01] Matt Tverberg: That's awesome. How do you do that? You have to be present, right?
You just have to be around and be observant.
[00:26:08] Julian Douglas: Yeah.
[00:26:08] Matt Tverberg: Going back to what you mentioned about just look-- coming into a building and approaching it from a different perspective.
[00:26:13] Julian Douglas: Yeah. Every morning I kind of wake up, and we use Slack in our environment, and we have, uh, office dedicated channels. I scan through every single one of those just to kind of see if there's any commentary or questions if we implemented, implemented something new, um, what are people's feedback.
Uh, our Dubai office just opened this week. Uh, we just moved into a new office, and their channel was buzzing today with all joy and just like, "This is great." Got a compliment from that local managing director, um, kind of giving us a kudos on it. Yeah, those are the thank yous that I get. But everyone was extremely happy.
I, I monitor them. I wasn't able to be there this week. I'm here with you. But, uh, yeah, it was, uh, good to monitor and see that.
[00:26:55] Matt Tverberg: Congrats.
[00:26:55] Julian Douglas: Thanks. Thank you.
[00:26:57] Matt Tverberg: Amazing. So let's talk a little bit about your, your work policy, your hybrid policy around, like, just employees using these amazing spaces that you built, 'cause you invest a ton of money into it.
You wanna see folks in it. So you have a, an interesting policy that I'm a, a fan of, is where you actually just have 10 days in the office per month, and kind of leave it up to the teams to pick rather than having it be a company-wide schedule. From an operations standpoint, what does that flexibility cost you in complexity?
[00:27:31] Julian Douglas: For the operational side of things, um, I think, yeah, we have- the company has that policy, but can you imagine pulling up to that McDonald's and, like, it's closed? We offer a service, right? Yeah. So we have to kinda be there day to day. Obviously, we have more than one person on a, on a given team, so we can flex things around a little bit, but our services have to be there.
Um, I'm usually there, and usually what it provides is, you know, if we have a lot of meetings, I, I, I don't do 10 days. I do literally almost every day- Sure ... uh, whether I'm traveling or whatnot. But it is a great, flexible, um, policy that they have. I've heard three days a week. I've heard two days a week.
Obviously, there's people full on in the office now. Um, but we're sticking by the 10 days, and it's actually working out pretty, pretty well across the portfolio.
[00:28:20] Matt Tverberg: With that, are, are you seeing different trends based by, by city?
[00:28:25] Julian Douglas: Yes. There's trends, obviously, you know, we're SF based, well, main office SF in New York or U- US company.
Um, internationally you'll see a little bit of a difference in their work times. Obviously, meetings with, uh, folks in the US is prominent. Um, but for the most part in office is, when are they getting fed? They come in for, they come in for the food- Yeah ... obviously. Um, so yeah, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday are lunch days.
Those are the days that are hot.
[00:28:57] Matt Tverberg: Can't tell you how consistent that is. Food brings people together.
[00:29:00] Julian Douglas: I know. It was- that thought process was being challenged on w- at one point, but yeah.
[00:29:05] Matt Tverberg: And it's actually perfect segue for my next question because it was around how you plan capacity and food service in front of house staffing when attendance patterns, you know, may fluctuate because of no requirement on a week to week and a more, um, holistic over the month.
[00:29:24] Julian Douglas: No, we have, uh, different levers that we've initiated at Ripple at, at the very least. So I didn't have this in, uh, past lives and other jobs, but, um, again, our IT team is great. We built au-automations around, uh, ticketing that we get for offsites, onsites, even our, uh, conference room data that shows people that are booked in certain conference rooms that may not be located in that local office, kinda helps us gather some prediction models that we speak with our vendors and say, "Hey, next week we're gonna have a little bit of influx in our, in our headcount, so come accordingly."
Uh, we do that literally every week. We look at the past week, we look at upcoming meetings, and whether it's event requests or offsite requests, and we send that to our providers, and they get ahead of it.
[00:30:12] Matt Tverberg: And I imagine as an office is open o- f- you know, beyond a, a year, is, is that something you look at then?
Like last year, July was super light comparatively 'cause summer vacation, or is it more recency? More recent.
[00:30:26] Julian Douglas: When you're part of a fast-growing company like Ripple, last year feels like 10 years ago. Um, but, and that data, yeah, yeah, it's important to kinda look at to kinda help you tell the story and see where it's potentially going, but normally I'll look back about a quarter.
Looking back past that is probably data that will make your decisions go the wrong direction.
[00:30:46] Matt Tverberg: Well, I know we help supplement some of that data, but you'd mentioned something interesting just the looking at the upcoming meetings.
[00:30:52] Julian Douglas: Yeah.
[00:30:53] Matt Tverberg: Is that-
[00:30:54] Julian Douglas: We can look into the future.
[00:30:57] Matt Tverberg: Tell me about that.
[00:30:59] Julian Douglas: Yeah. Um, yeah, leveraging the tools that we have now.
Um, uh, of course leveraging Envoy for our, uh, occupancy badge data. But it's usually we have been very, very good at communicating to EAs and just local staff. Like, "Hey, if you're gonna come to the office, submit a ticket. If you're gonna plan a offsite in one of our offices and it's not your local office, submit a ticket, uh, just so that we can kinda see."
We partner with our travel, uh, agency, Navan. We get reports on where people will be in certain locations. Not the full length, we're not tracking people at all. Sure. But it kinda helps us understand, like, where we're gonna have a little bit of, uh, spikes within our, uh, occupancy. But normally if I know that leadership is going to a certain office, you know, CEO goes there, I know people are gonna probably be coming in to show face and have meetings.
So that's a indicator right there as well. Um, but yeah, just trying to be a little bit of innovative and coming up with different ways of seeing how the offices are being used. Even getting that, uh- Usage d- usage data from, like, our food vendor company. You know, understanding, like, you know, "Is our milk running out that fast?"
Like, what's going on? And then you kinda correlate those with the dates, and it's like, ah, okay. So you know certain days might be a little bit hotter than others.
[00:32:17] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. So your CEO, Brad Garlinghouse, has talked publicly about AI being fundamental to Ripple's products- 100% ... and a starting point for employee productivity.
We are huge advocates of it here. From your seat, where is actually... Or wait, where is AI actually showing up in workplace operations maybe where it wasn't even just a year ago?
[00:32:41] Julian Douglas: I also open AI as soon as I open my computer as well. Um, as long as with Slack and emails and whatnot. It's part of our day-to-day as of right now.
Um, sometimes I'll just feed it stuff, whether it's that data, um, looking back and kinda h- tell it to m- tell... Make a story of it, right? Like, uh, within our facilities operations, there's a lot of AI tools that's being integrated within BMS systems, understanding patterns, um, looking at, uh, your usage for your air quality over time.
Um, it's really starting to evolve in that space, um, and in the workplace world as well, um, to help us make decisions or just make light of things that normally would n- take us a little bit of a while to investigate. Uh, whether that's a partnership with the vendor and just, like, I don't understand what's going on here, why I'm continuously have this issue.
Or just finding that p- part number in a s- book full of, uh, uh, as-buils that you probably like, "Man, what paint color did I use in a in this certain space?" Like, you just dump all that in there, and it will just give you the things that you need in seconds without having to go searching for it like you used to.
Yeah.
[00:33:47] Matt Tverberg: It's pretty wild how the... I guess it just eliminates so much of the mundane.
[00:33:52] Julian Douglas: Yeah, for sure.
[00:33:53] Matt Tverberg: We can actually do the work that takes our brains.
[00:33:57] Julian Douglas: Yeah, for sure. I remember when AI first kinda came into the workplace world, it was kinda looked at as like, why are you cheating? You know what I mean? Like, but now it's b- been adapted to kind of just be part of your day-to-day, just kinda like how we use Google, right?
Like- Right ... how do I get from here, point A to point B, whether that's a destination or a thought process. That's what AI is helping us with.
[00:34:18] Matt Tverberg: And with that, what's one of the most overhyped versus most underrated use cases that you see? Maybe some things that you're doing that other facilities teams aren't thinking about.
[00:34:32] Julian Douglas: Overhyped I probably would say building out a deck. Everybody's like, "Oh, just throw it in a card or build, build the deck for you." I'm like, I'm very particular- Mm-hmm ... I'm very real, so I'm like, "I don't want this to look like this." Yeah. So I end up having to do a lot of, uh, editing myself, especially if the information that you're giving it is not as accurate as you may, you may think it is, but usually you have to be very precise of, like, what you want.
Um, and I want things to come out a certain way. Obviously, that's part of the nature of my job. So yeah, whenever I'm building out a deck for, whether it's a presentation for either my staff or for leadership, I'm, I'm usually just sticking to creating that myself. I like that. But a lot of people use it to create decks, and I think it's a little bit overhyped, taking away from the skill set to me, to be honest too.
[00:35:18] Matt Tverberg: That resonates with me for sure, 'cause man, can you tell if a deck's been created by AI now.
[00:35:23] Julian Douglas: It's v- it's clear as day now too. Like, I see that, I'm like, "Claude."
[00:35:27] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, seriously.
[00:35:28] Julian Douglas: Yeah.
[00:35:29] Matt Tverberg: How much of your decision-making is driven by utilization data versus employee feedback? And then you even said, like, some of the stuff that you get that gut feeling about And what signals or data points do you actually look at to know whether a space is working for the employees?
You have all these different ways you've explained that you're getting and receiving this information, but when it comes down to it, like what are, what is the main things you're focusing on?
[00:36:01] Julian Douglas: Like, you know, there's a f- like they'll say like there's a equal sign behind like almost every formula. There's none with this one.
You can use all those data points. You can do all the correct things. When you're part of a fast-growing company, those things change very, very fast. Mm. So, um, I think COVID probably taught everyone that. Um, at that certain time there was a lot of, there's still a lot of office spaces that are out on the market that haven't even been touched since that time because it was just built the wrong way.
Um, but today, yeah, we use all these data points, utilization, we use all of it, and we'll build what we think is best, um, for that local team, whether it's a engineering hub or a sales or maybe it's a cult- like diverse as far as the team settings. We'll get all the feedback, but things which you build at day one is not by the end of that lease, it probably won't work the same.
Things will evolve, and you have to be able to adjust and evolve with the company, with that local team. Um, and things that come up, you'll... You might have thought that you need 100 uh, single person phone booths, and you probably didn't, or the, the latter, right? So- Right ... just being able to build things that are flexible is the name of like how we build things.
So we future-proof a lot of things, uh, run a lot of cabling to different places where in that moment you're like, "Well, why are we doing this now?" Sure. And then eight months later you're like, "I told you we gonna, we should have that there instead of having to, you know, break open walls again."
[00:37:26] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. 'Cause those things are really hard to come back to.
[00:37:29] Julian Douglas: Very hard to come back to, and very expensive.
[00:37:31] Matt Tverberg: Yeah.
[00:37:31] Julian Douglas: Not only cost prohibitive, but you know, the impact to the business is saying, "Hey, I have to close the office because, you know, we got to do some extra work." Just not a good look.
[00:37:41] Matt Tverberg: Well, the recipe's clearly working for you all, so keep it up. You've, uh, led teams supporting everyone from C-suite executives to engineers, EAs, mail room staff, security.
Do you feel like that breadth of experience has allowed you to design systems and workplaces that work for everyone, the whole range of, of people?
[00:38:07] Julian Douglas: No. No, there's no one formula I would say works for Ripple 100%, um, but there's definitely been cases where we've left other... Three Fifteen, for example- Mm-hmm
and people would go in, and they don't... A lot of people, a lot of companies still want offices, right? We don't, we're just not a company that does private offices, so I mean, I've done a lot of real estate tours, um, in my time, and I see different layouts and office spaces, and there's no one formula that works for everyone.
But for people mostly in the tech industry, though, I would say it does work. Um, but everyone has their own pattern, their own footprint. But-
[00:38:45] Matt Tverberg: Yeah ...
[00:38:45] Julian Douglas: for our footprint, it works for us.
[00:38:48] Matt Tverberg: A lot of people who end up in workplace leadership started somewhere unexpected. Looking at your team today, what kinds of backgrounds and skills are you hiring for that might surprise people?
[00:39:03] Julian Douglas: In the workplace world, I would say if I see a resume, and they're in hospitality coming out of a hotel or whether it's even restaurant, I think those folks, even with lack of experience maybe from other companies in that same position, or I would look at the... I don't throw those resumes away 'cause you have a certain level of a vibe that people would just gravitate to, that you want your central point of contact, that person to be that face of the office to have.
And if that person is a, like, likes to sit behind a computer and doesn't- Mm-hmm ... know how to communicate or just be present, like you walk through the door and say, "Hey, how you doing? How can I help you?" Then you're not really creating that home environment for new people. Yeah. Whether it's a visitor, a client, a new hire especially, or just a person visiting from another office to another, um, walking through the door, you...
We have people that you'll know that they're, they're, they're the workplace team.
[00:40:02] Matt Tverberg: I love that because that type of experience, I think that everyone should work in hospitality or service industry once in their life.
[00:40:12] Julian Douglas: I've never done it.
[00:40:14] Matt Tverberg: Well, you've earned it-
[00:40:14] Julian Douglas: I don't know- ... in many ways. I've never done it, and there's no issues with it at all.
I don't know. It just never crossed my path in a way.
[00:40:23] Matt Tverberg: But-
[00:40:23] Julian Douglas: But again, working in America- I
[00:40:24] Matt Tverberg: appreciate that you- ... movies like- That's what- ...
[00:40:26] Julian Douglas: talking to Harry Oak ... in my
[00:40:27] Matt Tverberg: mind, yeah. Yeah. That to me is a, a service job in as much as any of the other ones. Yeah, for sure. So I love that you bring people in with those backgrounds because those are the soft skills that can't be taught.
[00:40:39] Julian Douglas: You can't. Mm-mm.
[00:40:40] Matt Tverberg: So that, I appreciate that. What's one workflow or operational moment that has had an outsized impact on whether the employees trust the workplace team?
[00:40:53] Julian Douglas: A couple things. Um, we've built trust through our build-outs for sure. Um, there have been very many instances, and I can use Singapore for an example.
Uh, we went from one lo- location to another, very, very close within, uh, walking distance. The size of it was pretty significant at that time. Today we're out of space. But the first in- the first feedback from a lot of people from different levels, uh, just, you know, regular engineer or C-suite, "This is too much space.
What are we gonna do with it? How are we gonna build it? We don't..." They were coming from a small 9,000 square feet. We went to 30,000 square foot, one floor plate. By the time we finished building it and everybody walked in, it has now become like the benchmark of how we build offices- Cool ... to the point that our CEO went there, and he sent a company update that he does every Sunday and kind of gave a shout-out to the design and the intent and how offices are really star- starting to eve- develop across that pattern.
Um, and that was important for us because it sent trust waves out to the entire company. So they trust when we do things, we, we do it right. Um, and then also on the technology front, we just continue to build automations that le- the least path of resistance for people, right? Like instead of putting a ticket and getting, hearing a, a hear back from us or setting up the meeting to talk about that ticket or just putting people through multiple steps to get to the end goal, we're always taking away steps.
[00:42:24] Matt Tverberg: Yeah.
[00:42:25] Julian Douglas: We don't want people to have to go through multiple things to get an end solution. Uh, so we're always, uh, optimizing anything that we do. So we revisit every, all of our tools, all of our programming every year, and we're like, "Is there something new? Is there something better? Are we doing this correctly?"
Um, and we get third parties to come in and evaluate that as, as well. That's
[00:42:42] Matt Tverberg: great. Seems like, yeah, never become complacent in, in any of it.
[00:42:46] Julian Douglas: No. No.
[00:42:47] Matt Tverberg: For sure. How long ago was the Singapore one? Whereas like, all right, that's the gold standard.
[00:42:53] Julian Douglas: We actually just hit a year three weeks ago.
[00:42:55] Matt Tverberg: Okay.
[00:42:56] Julian Douglas: Um, so yeah, that has become our gold stan- standard for sure.
It's, it's decor and it's like look and feel is definitely Singapore, where it's not something that we would like copy and paste anywhere. Mm-hmm. But like the way it's laid out, the way that it's, um, set in its own kind of way is something that we are trying to definitely evolve from.
[00:43:17] Matt Tverberg: Well, I've never been to Singapore, but on my short list.
It's a
[00:43:20] Julian Douglas: great place.
[00:43:20] Matt Tverberg: Yeah.
[00:43:20] Julian Douglas: Long flight, but...
[00:43:21] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. So Ripple uses Envoy for visitor management workplace. You use conference room booking and desks or deliveries and screens products. You're also employing Visitors Enterprise with the, the Everbridge integration, so that incident readiness that we were talking about, and that's a, a deep connection between two very critical products.
What was the journey to getting there, and how do you think about consolidating on one provider versus like using two really extensive ones, having them work together?
[00:43:58] Julian Douglas: I think having variations in your product suite, no matter if the lens you're looking at it is one, is very important. Um, I mean, no offense, if one tool goes down, you don't want all tools to go down, so you can always find a different path.
Mm-hmm. Um, in case you have a connection issue or one company or data point is not right. Um, and as you know, we badge data is another critical part that we partner with, uh, Openpath now auto open. Um, and then we're always looking at other different tools to integrate I'm like the one person that hates looking at d- five different tabs or five different spreadsheets to tell me one story.
Sure. So everything integrated into one platform that can give you the data that you need accurately is super important. I think it's viable so that we can just kinda be a team that is, even though we're in different departments, whether that's physical security, workplace, or in IT, you can kinda look at the same data set and kinda make that same accurate decisions on things you need to do.
[00:44:56] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. It goes back to just what you're saying, like how are you eliminating friction- Yeah. Eliminating ... even for yourself.
[00:45:00] Julian Douglas: Exactly. Yeah. For ourselves as well, too.
[00:45:03] Matt Tverberg: Could you give me an example maybe of where having, uh, the centralized visibility has helped your team to move faster or avoid an issue, like make a better decision?
[00:45:13] Julian Douglas: I can go back to the question about lunch and kinda looking at, uh, data. I think we used to have our badge data look was on Looker. It was like a Google platform before. Now, with Envoy, we kinda use that tool. I mean, that's the data that we're getting it from anyway. We're pulling it. So like, while we're in that system looking at all the different things that we, we do now with Envoy, we kinda look back as much as we can, customizable.
Um, with Looker, there was some limitations. I think you can only go back, like, 45 days, whatever. Not that we have to go back that far, but we kinda look at that and see the visitors that are in, because when you walk into Ripple, everybody eats, not just employees, right? Like, if your clients are there, your family's there.
We kinda look at that and kinda understand that we have all the footprint that walks through the door. Badge data can c- can sometimes obviously miss a visitor that's just coming in to the, to the office that day. Um, so it kinda helps us get that last little mile of data that we might have not been able to get looking at the s- specific tools itself.
[00:46:15] Matt Tverberg: Well, Julian, you've come a long way from the mail room to running this global organization and real estate at, at Ripple. What, what would be some advice that you'd maybe give to somebody who's earlier in their career that is striving to follow a, a similar path?
[00:46:33] Julian Douglas: I was kind of a pest early in my career. I was like, I wanna know it all.
Uh, I even, I asked leaders, like, if I can just sit in on meetings and just kinda just watch. Some managers met that very well. Others were like, "No, are you crazy? Maybe I'll update you after." Uh, even to the vendors that you schedule to come in and do some work for you, a lot of... I notice a lot of, especially young employees, they'll do the bid to kinda get things set up logistically, and then, like, they'll just walk away.
I was the person that was right behind that vendor, like, "Why did this happen? How can we fix it? How can I prevent it?" You know, I was asking the questions that helped me understand each little item, um, and how it impacted the workflow of the employees that worked into the space. Um, yeah, so I was real- I was really, really annoying to a lot of vendors and, uh, some of the staff, and I learned a lot in real time because this is one of those professions or groups that if you talk to people and you're like, "What did you go to school for?"
You're not gonna get the same answer from those folks, right? So things just kinda naturally happen, um, over time, and you gotta be ready. You d- be ready when your time calls. When there's a position that alwa- opens up, you have been there or you can put your hat in the race or... I mean, AI bu- business is booming now.
I'm sure you've seen a lot of job postings out there for all these different AI companies that are growing and growing and growing, and now's the time to kinda hop on those as well. Um, get your feet in the door. Learn experiences in a whole new sector that is in very, very much learning stages right now.
Um, and see how you can adapt that, learn. I mean, I worked in media, I worked in financial, um, I work with tech, financial tech now. So different in- industries have lots of different ways to work, um, and understanding that and then applying it as you go is super important.
[00:48:21] Matt Tverberg: Love that. I think just staying curious, you know?
I love that response because knowledge, to me, is power, and I think when I interview folks here, it's like they have to have that curiosity.
[00:48:36] Julian Douglas: Yeah, you have to. It might not even impact your day-to-day, like, job responsibility or, uh, description, but if you just have a little bit of understanding of those outlier pieces that may come up any, any time, and learn how to kinda prevent that or be plan, plan for ahead, you'll be, you'll be set.
[00:48:55] Matt Tverberg: Stay curious. I love it. So when you picture the workplace five years from now- Ooh ... what's the part you're most excited to build towards? And what does success look like in future operations? 'Cause you said it changes-
[00:49:13] Julian Douglas: Fast. Five years is way too far to, to look ahead.
[00:49:17] Matt Tverberg: What do you think next year even looks like?
[00:49:19] Julian Douglas: Uh, we, we plan, I mean, annual is probably even a stretch, um, outside of, like, budgeting and whatnot, but we change a lot. I mean, I just came back from vacation. I took a week off, and I came back and, like, three things just totally flipped upside down of, like, plans that we were going to do that, um, took a different direction.
And I think there's a phrase that is out now is, like, being comfortable being uncomfortable. We definitely have to be in that mindset and understand that any project or thing that you're working on may switch, especially when you're in a fast-paced environment, and that's okay. I think that's kinda expected.
Um, and always having a plan B. You're not always gonna have a plan B, C, D, but knowing that you need to adjust and you just, "Okay, cool." New- treat it as a new project, right? You know, so it is what it is, and we will get it done.
[00:50:13] Matt Tverberg: Well, I've- can't thank you enough for being here, and best of luck in the Chicago build it sounds like.
And I'm sure you've got a, a couple more that are, are coming.
[00:50:23] Julian Douglas: Yeah. Those are all public knowledge, so you can know those. Chicago, São Paulo, London, new headquarters, Sydney, Australia. Yeah. I'm a busy, busy, busy, uh, year ahead.
[00:50:35] Matt Tverberg: Keep up the good work and keep, uh, you know, doing what you do, and it clearly is working for, for Ripple, and it's really been a pleasure chatting with you about everything you've grown and, um, been able to accomplish in your career and been able to accomplish with Ripple.
So with that being said, Julian, thank you so much and-
[00:50:54] Julian Douglas: Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, and, uh, yeah, I really enjoy having chats with you all the time. And yeah, anytime. It's a great environment to be in and time to be alive and just kinda working in these environments that are keeping me up, for sure, and full of knowledge.
Every day is different.
[00:51:12] Matt Tverberg: That's right. Stay curious.
[00:51:13] Julian Douglas: Stay curious.
[00:51:14] Matt Tverberg: Well, with that, this has, uh, been, Make Yourself @ Work. I'm Matt Tverberg, and we will see you all next time.