In this episode of Make Yourself @ Work, Matt Tverberg sits down with John Anthenien, Head of Integrated Facilities Management at Genentech, one of the first biotech company ever formed and now the center of Roche's research and early development. John brings more than 40 years of experience in biopharma facilities, spanning Chiron, Novartis, and JLL. He dives into the rise of the integrated facilities management (IFM) model, what it takes to build a one-team culture between client and provider staff, and how Genentech prepares for real emergencies through tabletop exercises and hands-on drills.
In this episode of Make Yourself @ Work, Matt Tverberg sits down with John Anthenien, Head of Integrated Facilities Management at Genentech, one of the first biotech company ever formed and now the center of Roche's research and early development. John brings more than 40 years of experience in biopharma facilities, spanning Chiron, Novartis, and JLL.
John's career started in a hospital boiler room, not a corner office, and that hands-on foundation shaped how he leads facilities today.
He dives into the rise of the integrated facilities management (IFM) model, what it takes to build a one-team culture between client and provider staff, and how Genentech prepares for real emergencies through tabletop exercises and hands-on drills. Some key lessons from the conversation include: trust and shared accountability make or break an IFM partnership, regular drills turn plans into muscle memory, and real innovation is any new idea that brings genuine value.
This episode is a guide for facilities and workplace leaders, corporate real estate professionals, and anyone running operations at a complex, highly regulated site.
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Quotes
“ We've been very successful, with the drugs we have, in extending patients' lives. There's nothing more rewarding than seeing that and working for a company where there's so much meaning and passion by their employees.”
“Innovation isn't as hard as people think. People talk about innovation all the time, and it's the form of continuous improvement. But what really is innovation? And I tell my team this: innovation is something new that brings value. That's it.”
“ To make yourself at work, you have to have a good work/life balance. You have to be able to get away. You have to take a step back.”
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Timestamps
(01:18) What Genentech does and John's role
(03:25) How John got his start in facilities
(09:31) Learning the industry with no playbook
(12:26) What integrated facilities management (IFM) actually means
(21:59) Where resistance to the IFM model comes from
(23:57) Building a one-team mindset
(25:50) Creating a first responder culture on campus
(28:43) Running a real emergency drill inside a condemned building
(29:52) Tabletop exercises and how often to run them
(33:38) Running one of the first open seating workplaces
(39:02) Cutting costs without sacrificing performance
(45:30) How John Makes Himself at Work
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Links
Connect with the guest and host on LinkedIn!
[00:00:00] Matt Tverberg: I'm Matt Tverberg. Welcome to another episode of Make Yourself at Work. I'm very pleased today to be joined by a very special guest by the name of John Anthenien. John leads integrated facilities management at a company called Genentech. It's a biotech company that helped start the industry and now sits at the center of Roche's research and early development.
John runs facilities across manufacturing, research labs, and campus-wide site services, a portfolio that really has to be productive, safe, and inspection ready every single day. He has more than 30 years of experience at biopharma facilities, spanning Chiron, Novartis, JLL, and his job at Genentech is a big one.
He has to keep one of the moks- most complex science campuses in the world running very secure and safe and really helping them shape a ever-evolving type of environment. And with that, I'm, like, really excited for you to be here, John, and the conversation today, so nice, nice to have you.
[00:01:16] John Anthenien: Thank you, Matt. It's my pleasure.
[00:01:18] Matt Tverberg: So I guess for those who may not know, tell us a little bit about what Genentech does and what your role as the head of integrated facilities, what does that encompass?
[00:01:28] John Anthenien: Yeah. Be, be happy to. So Genentech is, is a biotech company, one of the first biotech companies that the world ever saw, right?
Formed in 1976. And what Genentech does is basically produces drugs for patients who many have life, life-threatening diseases. We've been very successful in, with the drugs we have in extending patients' lives.
[00:01:54] Matt Tverberg: That has to be exciting when you have a breakthrough there and, uh, like, ultimately everybody there is legit saving lives.
[00:02:01] John Anthenien: Well, that's the whole thing about it, is that we know what our obj- well, we know what our objective is. Right. And that is, is, is we're doing this and we're coming to work for our patients. We have patient speakers, you know, on a regular basis who come and thank us.
[00:02:14] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:02:14] John Anthenien: And there's nothing more rewarding than seeing that and working for a company where There's so much meaning and passion, uh, by their employees.
[00:02:27] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, and I, I'm sure, like, unfortunately, like, I know that, like, cancer, in one way or another, touches almost all of us. It certainly does. And the fact that you're doing something to help on that front is
probably extremely rewarding. It's- And thanks for sharing ...
[00:02:41] John Anthenien: it certainly is.
[00:02:42] Matt Tverberg: So you've s- y- like I'd mentioned, you'd spent 30 years in biopharma facilities.
[00:02:48] John Anthenien: But actually, no, is, uh, that's probably from, uh, uh, 10 years ago 'cause it's over 40 years ago.
[00:02:54] Matt Tverberg: Oh, okay.
[00:02:54] John Anthenien: Yeah.
[00:02:55] Matt Tverberg: But with that, so now 40 years, I guess what, what pulled you into this work?
And now 40 years into it, what, what keeps you in it?
[00:03:04] John Anthenien: Well, it's amazing, you know, um, back when I was a teenager and not quite ready to go to college, and I'll share this, uh, I came from a very academic family. My mother was the dean of students at a, uh, private school in Berkeley, private college. Didn't do all that great in high school, so, uh, I wanted to go out and get a job.
And so I got a job as a union food service worker at a hospital, or services, like kind of site services, but more mainly in food service, and I was union. And I made, I made good money on an hourly wage. My mother was very concerned, and she, she, she took me... We went for a walk one evening. I was still living at home.
I was 18 years old, and she said, "You know, dear-" College isn't for everyone, and it's okay if you don't go, but you must find a skill that someone's gonna pay you for.
[00:03:59] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:04:00] John Anthenien: And dishwashing ain't it.
[00:04:02] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:04:02] John Anthenien: And it always, that always stuck with me. And so when I was at, it was called Providence Hospital, uh, in Oakland.
When I was there, I got to, uh, know some of the operating engineers, and I would go down to the boiler room, and I would-- And they were the, they were the maintenance guys. I would go down to the boiler room and, uh, hang out after my shift. I was working part-time, hanging out after my shift, and, uh, t- uh, they started teaching me about the boilers and what they did, and I'd go on rounds with them and things like that.
Even helped them out a little bit, and I liked it because they were working on so many different things every day. The person I knew used to work for a company called Cetus. It was abs- actually the first biotech company ever formed in 1971 in Berkeley. And he said, "You know, I know the, the, the director of operations there.
Let me, let me talk to him." And I didn't know much about, I didn't have a much mechanical, uh, background. And, and so I, um, I went to the, uh, he talked to him, and they, they invited me in, and basically an interview. He just said, "We don't have anything right now, so keep touching base." So I went down once a week, and he said, "Just keep touching base.
Something will come up." And sure enough, they had a facilit- facility clerk come up where I was basically a gofer, but it was pretty low level. I had to work my s- way up to become a facility coordinator Which I did, and they were-- And then a junior mechanic, mechanic, then a maintenance mechanic. And we had the old Shell complex in Emeryville, built in 1927, several buildings completely run down, and we remodeled everything in-house.
Everything. The only thing we didn't remodel in-house were the floors and the ceilings. But, you know, we even built the wooden cabinets for the labs, and I learned how to run pipe and perform electrical work and, uh, work on scientific equipment, autoclaves and homogenizers, and the whole thing. Things, you know, most people had never heard of.
[00:06:14] Matt Tverberg: Right.
[00:06:14] John Anthenien: And I stayed there for a long time, for 10 years, worked my way up as a, um, journeyman level mechanic, and, um, just it kind of took off from there.
[00:06:28] Matt Tverberg: Seems like the most amount of on-the-job training one could probably ever ask for.
[00:06:34] John Anthenien: It d- It, it's hard to find that today.
[00:06:37] Matt Tverberg: Right.
[00:06:37] John Anthenien: Everyone's just contracting everyw-where else.
But anyway, Chiron then bought Cetus, and, uh, but it was in the same facilities, the same area. So I didn't-- I stayed where I was and worked at Chiron for another 10 years. During that time, as I would go home, uh, I would, I would go home on the weekends, and my mom would always say, "You know, dear, it's never too late to go back to college."
So I did. So I went back to college while working full-time. I went to USF and got an, uh, earned a degree in economics. And then a few years after that, the person who hired me, now we're, like, talking nine-- now we're talking, like, in the year 2000, 'cause I sta- I was at Chiron until, uh, 2005, and he came to me and said, "If you ever wa-want to be facilities director, you'll need an MBA And I said, I thought, "Oh, geez.
I really don't wanna go back to college-" Yeah ... you know, for a graduate degree." And I really... It was- it's kinda difficult to doing it full time. I had small kids at home. And I went home, and my wife said... Oh, and he also said, "We'll pay for it."
[00:07:45] Matt Tverberg: Oh, that- "We'll pay for it." That helps
[00:07:46] John Anthenien: And he goes, "Pick a-" That helps
[00:07:47] Matt Tverberg: the argument.
[00:07:48] John Anthenien: "Pick a place." So I went home, and I told my wife, and I just figured, yeah, you c- you can't go- really go back at this stage of your career. But she said, "Well, how can you say no? I mean, how can you say no? They're ask- they're- they're ask- they're offering to send you to, uh, get your MBA." And so I didn't. So I spent two years in an MBA program, uh, harder than my undergrad, by the way, still working full time, and then in 2005, I, uh, graduated with an MBA.
And for someone who never wanted to go to college, I was pretty proud of myself.
[00:08:24] Matt Tverberg: What a change of events.
[00:08:25] John Anthenien: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:26] Matt Tverberg: With all of that, I guess, really, like, hands-on skills that you earned, are you the go-to person when your friends need something fixed now, too?
[00:08:34] John Anthenien: Oh, without a doubt. Although, you know, without, without their homes or things like that, not too much anymore.
Now it's my son. Oh, okay. They'll, they'll, they'll call my son, who's quite mechanical, much more than I was at his age. But, uh, yeah, you're, you're absolutely right.
[00:08:47] Matt Tverberg: I love that. I... As someone who loves working with his hands, I can appreciate learning those mechanical things. Well, you, you had mentioned a little bit about Cedus.
They're founded in 1971. Yep. They're one of the very first, or maybe the first biotech company, as you mentioned.
[00:09:02] John Anthenien: They were the first in 1971.
[00:09:04] Matt Tverberg: You were around really when there was no playbook. The rules were still undefined. There was no talent pool to pull from, just, like, young, really smart people trying to figure it out.
Now, 40 years later, what do you think has stayed tried and true to how things were done then, and where do you think things are different and, and heading in a different direction?
[00:09:26] John Anthenien: You're absolutely right about, um, we were, we were an extremely young company, and we didn't have the East Coast pharma companies to draw talent from.
[00:09:36] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:09:36] John Anthenien: You know, 'cause most of the pharmas were, i- if they were, you know, in the US or on the East Coast.
[00:09:40] Matt Tverberg: And a lot, a lot still are.
[00:09:42] John Anthenien: And, and, and most still are- Yeah ... of the, of the established pharmas. We kinda learned as we went. You know, we'd, uh, we started out as a research company, uh, and then, you know, broke into manufacturing with, uh, with, uh, uh, GMP, Good Manufacturing Practices, which is a way the FDA regulates, um, uh, what you do and how you make drugs.
It was, um... But before that, I mean, it was Really, we had some very talented people working for us in the facilities group, extremely talented. I mean, they could make, they could, they could... They were some of the best I've ever worked with, and we just kind of learned as we went. We didn't know what this equipment did when it came in.
You know, we would get training. We would basically read manuals, and we would help each other. But what I do remember is, you know, as we got into more compliance and we had to follow regulations, our quality control group was also very young. We kind of figured, again, things out together. They would ask us many things.
We'd ask them. And I think what the... And, and we were suc- successful, and we did everything, you know, within compliance, but sometimes it took a little while to, you know, to figure it out. I think what the difference is now is that the quality control or quality assurance group, QA, is, you know, they have the final word on everything, and they know what they're doing.
And they are some of the brightest in the industry for who I work with now or even worked with, you know, at Kyron, um, you know, as we became more established. Um, and that if you need something or s- you're not sure about something, you ask QA.
[00:11:22] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:11:22] John Anthenien: And QA is, is, QA is the, is the, the ones who really are the ones who make decisions and things like that when it comes to compliance.
[00:11:30] Matt Tverberg: And what a time to figure it out, too. When you started, there were no internet even, right?
[00:11:35] John Anthenien: There, yeah, there was no internet.
[00:11:36] Matt Tverberg: There were no cell- The manuals were the, the go-to
[00:11:39] John Anthenien: No internet, no cell phones. You're exactly right.
[00:11:42] Matt Tverberg: That's an awesome way to learn. I'm a big reader, so-
[00:11:46] John Anthenien: Yeah ...
[00:11:46] Matt Tverberg: don't ever throw the manual out.
Exactly. You always may need
[00:11:50] John Anthenien: it. Exactly.
[00:11:51] Matt Tverberg: So John, those years at JLL, you'd mentioned were the biggest learning experiences of your career. What do you think made that stretch so formative in, in your career?
[00:12:04] John Anthenien: Yeah, and just to back up a little bit, Novartis bought Kyron, so, um, and then I was still on the same site, you know, for practically 30 years.
So actually, I am well more than 40 in the industry, more like 45. Um, and then in 2010, Novartis made the decision to, um, outsource to an IFM model. Very, very young mo- pretty young model back then. The only company that had it, I believe, was Amgen.
[00:12:33] Matt Tverberg: And IFM meaning integrated facilities management?
[00:12:36] John Anthenien: Integrated facilities management.
So integrated facilities management is a form of outsourcing where you bring in the labor to do the work in the f- in facilities. Uh, for example, they're, they're mainly real estate companies like JLL and CBRE. But the difference of, you know, outsourcing where you bring in labor and you, you direct the labor is they bring in the management as well.
They bring in their directors and supervisors and, and managers of sort, and they manage their team. They also take your vendors, and this is a big benefit, they take your vendors and th- your, your company's vendors roll under them, like for janitor- janitorial, cafe, security, what we call soft services. And the vendors roll under, uh, the IFM, you know, service provider.
They will, um, roll under the IFM service provider, and the service provider owns the vendor's con- vendor contracts. And it's a huge benefit because they manage the vendor. They basically score the vendor, and then, uh, if they... And then who really likes IFM are our procurement departments because instead of having 300 or 400 POs with a vendor, you have one with your service provider, and they take care of it.
It allows you to do a few things. One, it allows you to save money because they will give you a, um, a price, and they... And if they exceed that price, they have to pay for it, although we don't want them to do that. We want them to meet their budget. And, uh, it allows you to spend more of your time on strategy, less on tactical.
And, uh, they are also the leading facility in engineering companies where I work for a science company. So there's a huge amount of benefit to bringing in the IFM model.
[00:14:31] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, and I think there, there's a lot of things that people are unaware of when it comes to managing vendors too. It's just all of the paperwork that you need to keep up to date and-
[00:14:40] John Anthenien: That's correct
[00:14:41] Matt Tverberg: the different forms of insurance that need to be up to date. And when you have hundreds of them, as a facilities manager- It's
[00:14:48] John Anthenien: a lot of work ...
[00:14:49] Matt Tverberg: it's a ton of overhead and time, so that IFM certainly saves a lot of time.
[00:14:54] John Anthenien: You don't have to, you do, you don't have to deal with the people issues as well- Mm-hmm
for the direct employees. Uh, some of, some of the, uh, our employees are union, and the u- union, managing the union takes a lot of time. So the JLL and CBRE's of the world will take, will do that as well. Uh, you mentioned, you, you, you mentioned that I learned a lot. So what happened in 2011 is I transitioned over to JLL along with my entire team and 21 North American, uh, Novartis sites, all at the same time.
It was a, it was a huge, uh, initiative. And right away, I was a hard service guy where it comes to chillers and boilers and, you know, the big equipment, that and the site energy manager. But When I left Novartis on a Friday and became JLL on a Monday, I became the site lead. And all the soft services, things I've already mentioned, you know, janitorial and, uh, you know, the cafe, just to kind of repeat myself, conference room setups, uh, landscaping, all of a sudden they were all under me as well.
[00:16:00] Matt Tverberg: Sure.
[00:16:01] John Anthenien: And what I quickly learned is our customers, you know, the, the Novartis employees, basically didn't really care too much about hard services. As long as you turned on the water or you had heat, that's perfectly fine. But you know, they, you know, they expect it, but the soft service is what, what, is what's really visible to them.
[00:16:19] Matt Tverberg: Right.
[00:16:20] John Anthenien: And, uh, very visible, in fact. And so it was a great learning experience to learn the entire, uh, functions of facility operations, but, uh, also it was, it was as f- as financial, is that Novarti- JLL quickly realized that, um, I, I knew the... I knew a lot of the 21 sites, the network, and I kinda knew what I was doing, and so they started giving me almost immediately more responsibilities and more sites, like in Vacaville and Cambridge and North Carolina and, uh, Colorado.
And I would go to these sites sometimes for extended periods. Basically as my boss said, "You know, you solve problems. Now that's why, that's why we need you." And I didn't mind traveling, and, uh, that's what I did. But I only did it for a short time, for about two years.
[00:17:16] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, being able to solve problems in real time, that's wh- I love visiting customers- Yeah
because as a, a workplace management platform, the best way to solve problems is to see them firsthand. And it's al- almost sounds like all the soft services, the stuff that you weren't learning initially down in the boiler room, almost are the hard ones to deliver really- They are ... effectively.
[00:17:36] John Anthenien: They are.
[00:17:37] Matt Tverberg: Because they impact more people and are more visible.
[00:17:40] John Anthenien: Correct. Uh, with- without, without a doubt. The impact is probably the same, but the visibility's a big deal.
[00:17:46] Matt Tverberg: Right. Well, I know a lot of your team with The, uh, IFMs are non-badged employees, right? Sure. They're like an extension of the team. How do you turn that into, like, feeling like one cohesive team and, like, more of an extension of like the CBRE employees, the JLL employees-
[00:18:06] John Anthenien: Compared to, um, uh, the, the Genentech employees- Exactly
or the Novartis
[00:18:10] Matt Tverberg: employees? Yeah. How do, how does, how does that relationship turn into feeling like one cohesive group?
[00:18:16] John Anthenien: On the facilities side, uh, it can be difficult. You know, when I was at Emeryville, the entire team transitioned over, so it was easy. But, uh, in many, in many, uh, instances, only partially does a team transition.
So you have an internal group and you have an external group. That can be hard. Uh, one, because many of the times the, um, employees that work for the client is, i- is, is how we're termed, uh, transition over, so they move over like I did. And there can be difficulties because now you're working for two different companies.
[00:18:52] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:18:53] John Anthenien: And sometimes the client feels, "When is the next shoe gonna drop? When am I gonna transition over? When am I going to," you know, uh, um... And if... Now, I'm not saying this happens, you know, it's happened in previously in my career, but sometimes the client will think, "You know, if, if the service provider does so well, they'll have room for...
They'll want to transition my, my responsibilities over as well." So, but the thing what people don't really understand, and hardly anybody does, but I did because I was on s- uh, the Emeryville side for 30 years, I was ready for a change. Almost always, I would say 90% of the time, employees that transition over, especially from a science company to a facilities company and they're facilities employees, the, it, it's an opportunity for them.
You know, they- it's basically an almost an instant career path.
[00:19:49] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:19:49] John Anthenien: Something you can build. Um, JLL and CBRE are global companies.
[00:19:55] Matt Tverberg: Right.
[00:19:55] John Anthenien: And they have a lot of opportunity and, you know, 60, 70% of the jobs are facilities. And, you know, and it happened to me right away. I mean, and it's happened to other people and colleagues and, you know, I left, I like to say that I left Novartis as a manager And two years later, when I left JLL, I became a director at Genentech.
I would have never made that jump as the manager of facilities into a director. There, there w- there was almost too big of a gap
[00:20:29] Matt Tverberg: Without the experience you gained.
[00:20:30] John Anthenien: Without the experience of JLL.
[00:20:32] Matt Tverberg: Makes a lot of sense because with people like JLL, CBR, you have to service all sorts of different industries and-
[00:20:38] John Anthenien: For all sorts of different i- industries.
You're, you're exactly right. So- Now you may ask, well, why did I leave JLL? And I wasn't looking for a job, but, uh, the connection was made and ta- I, I talked to Genentech and they were just starting their IFM era and they wanted someone who had worked both sides.
[00:20:57] Matt Tverberg: Hmm.
[00:20:57] John Anthenien: Someone who had worked for the service provider and someone who had worked for a client side.
And, you know, I talked to them for a little bit. I, I toured a spectacular site, 5 million square feet, um, 60 buildings, and it's something that, uh... And South San Francisco, it was something that I just couldn't pass up.
[00:21:18] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. Usually the best opportunities come when you aren't looking.
[00:21:21] John Anthenien: When you're not... That's exactly right.
[00:21:23] Matt Tverberg: So y- you've said the hardest part is not the work, it is getting everyone to buy into this model Where does the resistance typically come from, and then how do you ultimately win people over?
[00:21:38] John Anthenien: The resistance typically comes from the client, the client side. Typically comes from folks who are still working in the facilities department.
Um, I was really lucky at Genentech 'cause we didn't have resistance at Genentech. It wa- it was, it was pretty smooth. And I, I may have had something to do with that as, uh, a- as someone who came on and could explain the model and what they were gonna do and that, you know, there's no threat here to your jobs.
I saw it at other places, uh, but at Genentech I didn't see it too much. But it does come... Sometimes it could be finger-pointing where the client now has someone to blame when something doesn't go right. When J- uh, when, when, when the service provider or I- when the IFM service provider's on site, the visibility of what they do is much greater than just the eng- facilities and engineering department.
I, uh, everyone hears about what they're doing, and they, and they do this for a reason. They basically send out reports. Their metrics are really good. They basically will let... A- a- and when, and, and the client will invite other folks outside of facilities where, you know, it's... Like I said, everyone knows what's going on.
When you have an internal F&E department, facilities and engineering, it's mainly like any department. You kinda keep it within. Mm-hmm. So if there are problems and stuff, you know, and they can be remediated without any big issues, no one needs to really hear about them.
[00:23:11] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, and part of the IFM, I'm sure, is they wanna have proof that they're doing the work that they're doing, hence the cl- clear data that they're given.
[00:23:20] John Anthenien: That's right.
[00:23:21] Matt Tverberg: So you did s- just mention this, but the, the pitfall of the finger-pointing, like, "Hey, that wasn't us."
[00:23:26] John Anthenien: That's right.
[00:23:26] Matt Tverberg: The re- reflex between in-house versus service teams, how do you get everybody, like, rowing the boat together?
[00:23:35] John Anthenien: It's, uh, it's a one-team mindset. It's a, uh, it's a, it's a, it's a partnership where you trust each other, and it's re-emphasizing, reinforcing, and letting, you know, having workshops with each other, the client team and the, the, um, service provider team.
It's, it's basically their success is our success, and if they fail, we fail
[00:24:01] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:24:02] John Anthenien: And you have to get that across, 'cause it's so true. And you can't really have an internal team who is working alongside the, um, IFM provider. You can't have an in- internal team working alongside the IFM provider where the trust isn't involved, where, where there's not a, uh, partnership.
Because if there's not, then you are going to fail, and I've seen that happen a few times in my career. Not at Genentech, thankfully, but other places.
[00:24:31] Matt Tverberg: Uh, that, where the relationship breaks down and there's never the cohesion between the two, the in-house?
[00:24:36] John Anthenien: Correct. So you have to ta- you have to be proactive.
And as the client, I mean, that's when before you go live, you basically have work streams on what's gonna transition over. You basically have, uh, one team workshops where, uh, you get to know each other. You, you, you develop scenarios where, you know, this could happen, this may happen. What are your fears?
What are your desires? Where do you wanna see this going? This is, uh, extremely important, and the client side has to be able to take the time to do this.
[00:25:08] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, they need to be able to articulate what their vi- Their essentially, like, roadmap is for improving the, the services and the facilities, and if there's not that open communication, you're setting both teams up for failure, it seems.
[00:25:22] John Anthenien: Exactly right.
[00:25:23] Matt Tverberg: So your engineers and mechanics, they're on site every day, which makes them feel like your first responders. How does that model come together?
[00:25:34] John Anthenien: You know, our first response team is one of the most important things we do. And on, on large s- any site, but especially on large sites, there are inevitably events that can put product, could potentially put employees at danger.
And, and the first responders are very well-trained.
[00:25:55] Matt Tverberg: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:55] John Anthenien: And they do it all as part of their job, you know, the, in addition to their job. And when there is an event, it could be, it could be... Well, it could be things like an earthquake or a flood or something like that, or smaller things that aren't small, but more isolated within a building, a fire in a building, uh, things like that.
We, you know, we have to know, the first responders have to be able to get to the event first. They have to be able to secure the area. They have to be safe at all times. Um, and they have to make sure employees are not gonna go into harm's way, and that is, uh, it's quite, uh... I've been really proud to ha- serve o- have served on teams.
I've also noticed that, uh, the, the folks I work with are, are proud as well. But, um, we've had a, a lot of stuff. Back in Chiron, we had a bombing- Mm ... that, uh, folks came. This is all public knowledge. That, uh, in the middle of the night, bombs went off, and, uh, that was, um, something, uh, that, um, was quite the, um- The, the event that lasted days and days and days
[00:27:01] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, 'cause it's always about, like, getting confirmation that all of your employees are indeed safe.
[00:27:07] John Anthenien: That's right.
[00:27:07] Matt Tverberg: When, uh, when that had, had occurred, were there employees that were working 24/7? There were.
[00:27:12] John Anthenien: There were. No one was hurt.
[00:27:14] Matt Tverberg: Well, it's hard to, you know, stay prepared for those things like that because they're typically unpredictable, such as, you know, Mother Nature is the most unpredictable thing.
[00:27:24] John Anthenien: Yeah.
[00:27:25] Matt Tverberg: Earthquakes here, knock on wood- Yeah ... but, you know, tho- that's always looming. How do you ensure that folks stay prepared and, and-
[00:27:33] John Anthenien: Oh, we ha- we, we have, uh, uh, uh, workshops, uh, scenario planning, real-time activi- activities where if this went off, what would we do? We go into the field. We, uh, we, um, take advantage of, uh, the fire department, the police department in the local areas where they will help us.
Sometimes we get even ... We have, we've had great hands-on training where we were going to tear down a building anyway, and we bas- We used that building to, uh, stage different scenarios like rescue and things. And we worked with the fire department during that time who they, who were just fabulous.
[00:28:13] Matt Tverberg: So that actually is a great segue here.
You once got to run a real emergency scenario inside a condemned building- We did ... with the local fire department, rappelling- We did ... doing all of those things, like Tom Cruise almost.
[00:28:28] John Anthenien: Well
[00:28:28] Matt Tverberg: Te- tell us about that a little bit.
[00:28:31] John Anthenien: Yeah. The building was, uh, it was three stories, um, and it was going to be torn down.
Was torn down. And we ... The scenarios were mainly rescue and injured employees. And we would not know until we got to the injured employee. We didn't know where the employee was, and we didn't know until we got there what the injury was, and then they would let us know what the injury was. And the, the employee was real, who would
He kind of was laying on the ground and, you know, you know, acting. Uh, and then we had to treat for, um, injury, and then we had to safely, uh, evacuate from the building
[00:29:10] Matt Tverberg: And that was in partnership with the fire department, so you had, like, a first responder there as part of this, like- We did ... role play?
[00:29:16] John Anthenien: We did.
We did. And the fire department was there, and they instructed us as well, how, what we did, how we were doing it, and it's something that I, that I remember quite well.
[00:29:26] Matt Tverberg: So tabletop exercises can feel abstract until you make them real, just like this. Sure. A Bay Area earthquake, road closures, like, no fuel for generators.
[00:29:37] John Anthenien: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:38] Matt Tverberg: How do you run those so something actually changes afterwards, like your learnings?
[00:29:44] John Anthenien: The way we do that is we will, um, get a script of what happened, o- of what may have happened. If there's been a 7.0 earthquake centered here, these roads are closed. These buildings ha- are not safe to enter, we don't think.
You know, because no one's quite sure when it's happening. There are injuries over here, go- here, uh, at this side of the campus, and, uh, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? And then we assemble the team. Uh, sometimes we're in groups. We assemble a team and go through exactly what we would do if this was real.
From communication, who ne- you know, who needs to be communicated right away, whether, you know, it is the CEO of the company, or, you know, um, who's in charge, you know, who, who may be in that building. Do we have to c- you know, alert family members and so forth. And then the, we'll get another, um, like, script's the wrong word, but we'll get another update that there are employees in this building, so what are we gonna do?
There's a gas smell in this building, very strong. What are, what are we gonna do? And again, safety's always number one. Uh, employee safety, your safety's number one first. Employee safety's number, number two, but a very close number, number two. Then we walk through, and sometimes they can last days at a time.
[00:30:59] Matt Tverberg: Hmm.
[00:31:00] John Anthenien: You know, and it's, you know, I'm grateful for the, where I've done this at the different companies, I'm grateful that they allow us to do this, they allow the time. Because, you know, we could all be doing something in our everyday job, and they allow us to leave that for a little bit and, uh, practice on what should, you know, just as important as anything else.
[00:31:20] Matt Tverberg: What do you think a good, like, standard would be for these almost, like, role play exercises where it stays top of mind, right? That's why people do these, so when it actually occurs, it feels second nature to, to do the right thing or do what is planned. What do you think a good frequency is, or what, what do you-
[00:31:40] John Anthenien: I would say for a large one, one that will last one to two days, I would say annually.
[00:31:45] Matt Tverberg: Annually? Okay.
[00:31:45] John Anthenien: But I would say quarterly get the response team together and go over, you know, go over the reminders, reinforce what people need to do, why we're there. Uh, maybe do a half day of scenario of, of such. But for a large scale one, it's every year.
[00:32:02] Matt Tverberg: And it's not just the plan, too. The, the technology's likely that go along with it need to be tested, too.
Do you find yourself testing the technology alongside the scenarios that you're building out?
[00:32:14] John Anthenien: Um, we do. So, I mean, we ha- we, obviously the technology is computers and phones. Some of us have satellite phones, which I'm told now that your cell phone might even be a satellite phone. But, uh, you know, those all have to be tested.
We have scenarios where, because people do work remote now, is if you're working remote, what do you do? Do you come in? Um, this kind of goes away from the technology a little bit, but, you know, how do you get fuel to your generator? What... These roads are closed, and, um, how do you, how do you work, work around with these roads are closed and things like that?
Uh, part of the technology would be the satellite mapping. Yeah. You know, can we go a different route, and things like that. Yeah. But as far as technology itself, you know, a lot of it is, you know, making the right decisions, using your common sense, and, um, don't ta- no, don't- Do not take undue risks.
[00:33:09] Matt Tverberg: Makes sense.
Makes sense. So you ran one of the first open seating workplaces anywhere Early enough that even bigger players copied it. What did you learn about how space shapes the way that people actually are doing their work?
[00:33:25] John Anthenien: Yeah, I was on the team, so I didn't actually, uh, um, run it. Um, but I did, uh... I was on the team on how the design team, and how to change, and how...
It's, it's a big change for employees when you have an open work seating environment, and they're coming from offices and cubicles.
[00:33:44] Matt Tverberg: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:44] John Anthenien: So, you know, change management is a big deal, which, which makes that work. Where I did this at Genentech is they were really on top of the open seating. It's been a success.
People like the opper seat- o- open seating environment. You look around your, your facility here, and I can see the same thing. Now, you may or may not have assigned seating. In our s- in our, um, model, there is no assigned seating. You know, you seat, you sit where you want to sit. And the benefit of this is that, you know, you can f- you really, you can fit more employees into a building because we did surveys, and the number of hours per day that, that em- employees were not in their offices is amazing 'cause they're at meetings or they're, you know, in someone else's, you know, area or something like that.
And it's hours a day. So why the... well, we have these dedicated offices that a lot of times people don't use.
[00:34:40] Matt Tverberg: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:40] John Anthenien: So, uh, there's actually, there's actually a ratio that can be used. It doesn't matter what you do, but it's the number of, the number of people per seat. For example, if you said, "I'm gonna have 1.4 people per seat," well, that means there's not enough seats for everybody, right?
But there's a churn rate. People are getting up, they're, they're walking around, and I've never had much of a problem finding a seat. And working on the, the team and converting traditional office environment to that, now sometimes you can build buildings with this, but we, we, we did that, but we also converted traditional space.
It was really eye-opening about, you know, wanna make sure the people have what they need to do their job.
[00:35:23] Matt Tverberg: Right.
[00:35:23] John Anthenien: Yeah.
[00:35:24] Matt Tverberg: That's been really interesting to see. I mean, thinking back before 2020, having open seating was not very common. That's right. But now I would say it's more of the norm. It's more- Or at a bare minimum, it's half and half.
The people that are coming in all the time may have a, a space for themselves, but the vast majority is open seating. It's,
[00:35:45] John Anthenien: yeah, it's ve- and it also works because, you know, for, for, uh, for companies now, there's more remote work.
[00:35:51] Matt Tverberg: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:51] John Anthenien: So not all the employees are in the office at the same ti- same day, you know?
And you may have to stagger that, uh, but, uh, that's another reason it works.
[00:36:01] Matt Tverberg: Is something that you keep your eye on, then, maybe, like, the cost per square foot and, like, utilization, average occupancy? Is that something you're also keeping your eye on?
[00:36:11] John Anthenien: Yeah, I don't do it as much anymore, but, uh, utilization i- wa- was a big thing.
You know, where, how often are you in the area? How many seats are available? You know, you can, you can use technology with that, with, uh, sensors, but, uh, normally it's asking and walking-
[00:36:28] Matt Tverberg: Hmm ...
[00:36:28] John Anthenien: to, to do that. You know, do, do people, are they struggling to find a place and are they not? You know, funny, we even did...
You know, I read a study, uh, that compared introverts to extroverts in, in the open design, and the... And this is the introverts didn't like it because, I mean, just some, right? The introverts didn't like it because everyone, it was too noisy. Everyone was talking around them The extroverts didn't, weren't, weren't as efficient because they were the ones doing the talking and- Right
and talking to people. So that was just kind of like an antidote that, uh, I found a little bit amusing. But what I liked about it is you are so accessible to everyone else. You know, our vi- our vice president would sit in, in... We called them neigh- neighborhoods. Would sit in the neighborhood, and you, you can go right up to them, you know?
And you can do that with anyone. I mean, someone could come up with me if I'm sitting there. And there were like cues if you wanted to put headphones on, do your head- heads down work, um, then you wouldn't bother someone. But it was so much easier to communicate with folks, that you didn't have to call a meeting because you could just go ask them that question.
And then if you need to do heads down work, we have what we call breakaway rooms, where you can go into a, a dedicated room that, with a door and the whole thing, and, uh, you know, do some heads down work.
[00:37:48] Matt Tverberg: As an extrovert, I can appreciate the open- Yeah ... floor. I actually love having really spontaneous conversations on the floor, and I think that's one of the huge benefits of having an open space, is those conversations that, you know, are happening in real time, for sure.
[00:38:06] John Anthenien: It's that, and it's another... Those conversations are also, uh, why remote work doesn't al- you know, like full-time remote doesn't always work, 'cause you miss the hallway conversations.
[00:38:16] Matt Tverberg: Absolutely.
[00:38:17] John Anthenien: You miss basically things that were never scheduled that day that you've gotten accomplished.
[00:38:22] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. I've... The people that are in office certainly are learning faster, ramping faster.
Yeah. There's, there's no doubt about that. As an operations guy, you are always focused on probably improving how things are working, but how do you do that while also keeping cost and maybe cutting costs in mind, and like do both at once without the expense of each other?
[00:38:44] John Anthenien: Well, well, bring in IFM, where you can improve services while lowering costs.
And I have years and years of data that show, that, that, that shows how. Yeah. But other than that, you have to, you know, continuous improvement's really important. Your company does not want you to just be stagnated. And so it's really all about the team. Having the team that is innovative, is, is creative.
Having that and b- coming up with different ideas and, you know, uh, solving problems more, you know, efficiently i- i- is the key.
[00:39:21] Matt Tverberg: So these days, comparatively, you're, you're more of an internal advisor and guiding people rather than being the one really executing on the ground. After decades of managing the sites yourself really with a team, how has that shift felt for you?
[00:39:38] John Anthenien: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because at the beginning of the, the podcast, you mentioned I was managing, um, the facilities. And, and I'm not. I used to, but I don't anymore and, and someone, someone else is doing that and doing... and she's doing a, a better job. She's doing a great job, better job than I, than I was doing.
But so I don't do that anymore. And what I do is I have oversight over the IFM model and I, and I work with not only the IFM service provider but the client, you know, my, uh, you know, internal employees as well. So in our, in our environment, the, the head of the site has financial responsibility, has operational responsibility for our service provider to do, to ensure the work is getting done, and they partner really well together.
I have oversight of that, and, uh, sometimes, sometimes I really call in when there, there are problems. Um, but I try to be proactive, you know, be able to look at the month- the monthly metrics and the KPI scores and see, okay, where are they need to improve a little bit. And then I, then I handle, um... I'm kind of the, the, the liaisons between our service provider and, you know, Genentech folks today.
It is... And I have my experience. I have over 45 years of experience in operations and quite a bit in management as well. I kinda help out where, where is needed without pushing myself on anything.
[00:41:06] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:41:07] John Anthenien: So, uh, I, I think, um, I'm, I'm pr- I'm pretty effective. Escalations, especially VIP escalations or VP escalations, I wanna te- I wanna take that off other people's plate and handle it myself.
So anytime people have a problem, especially if it's, uh, you know, the heads of F&E or the heads of the site or something like that, if you have a problem with our IFM provider, then come to me.
[00:41:34] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:41:34] John Anthenien: And, um, I'll take care of it.
[00:41:36] Matt Tverberg: The fixer. So what is a belief about facilities or leadership that most people in your field would push back on?
[00:41:44] John Anthenien: I... That, that, that, that's a good question. So a belief that you can improve your facilities at a cost-neutral basis.
[00:41:54] Matt Tverberg: Mm.
[00:41:55] John Anthenien: That you can save, that you can save costs, which everyone needs to do now, without sacrificing performance. That you have to think out of the box. That innovation isn't as hard as people think.
Innovation is, you know... People talk about innovation all the time, and it's the form of continuous improvement. But what is basically, what really is innovation? And I t- and I tell my team this, "Innovation is something new that brings value" That's it. It could be, it could be technology. It could be a program you bring in.
It could be an idea. If it brings value to your company, it's innovation, and that's, that's it. And so think about it and, uh, come up with some things. I was in the, uh, working out the other day in a, a, a large facility, the large, uh, fitness center, and, um, I was walking around. And I, I'm one of the older people in the group, but there, but there are people my age, too.
And though I was walking around, I... And it was crowded. I noticed people sitting on machines or sitting or... And m- mainly younger people, and our whole, you know, world needs younger people, right? I mean, they're gonna change the world. But every one of them, it seemed, I mean, it seemed every one of them was on their phone.
They would be, you know, in between a, a weight rep, and they'd be sitting there on their phone. They'd be at, um, you know, some- you know, walking around on their phone, constantly on their phone. And I have young adult children, and so I can, I... It wasn't, it wasn't that surprising. But what they're missing is your alone time.
What they're missing is the time where you can sit and think and be, you know, creative and innovative and come up with, with solutions and things. And I think that's what society's missing a little bit because if you never have your alone time, time to really reflect Then you're not gonna come up with stuff.
Everything's gonna be, you know, it, it's all there for you. And when I was way, way back in my early 20s when I was, I was starting out, I remember that director that hired me, uh, we had a pro- I don't know what it was. We, it was a pipe-fitting problem, or it was something that we couldn't figure out. And I came the next day, and I said, I said, "Dan," Danny, Danny was his name.
I said, "Danny, I was thinking about this last night, and I think, I think this is what we do." And he said, "Oh, you were working in your sleep, were you?" I said, "Yeah." He goes, "Some of the best ideas come when you're just working in your sleep." But now, when I do the same thing, if I wake up in the middle of the night and can't fall asleep, sometimes I do look at my phone or something like that.
I mean, I'm, I'm not saying I don't look at my phone, because I do, but I'm just saying, we had no phones to look at years ago.
[00:44:49] Matt Tverberg: Yeah. I could do a whole hour episode on why people on their phone at the gym is probably my biggest pet peeve. Look at my phone. So I appreciate that very much. So on, on Make Yourself at Work, I always have to ask, you know, what does that mean to you?
How do you make yourself at work?
[00:45:06] John Anthenien: You don't want everything to revolve around your work. So you wanna do a really good job. You have to do a good job. Not only you, but many times others depend on you. Uh, not just at work, but at home as well. But to make yourself at work, you have to have a good work-life balance.
You have to be able to, you know, get away. You have, you know, you know, s- take a step back, even if it's just for an evening, a weekend, you know, a nice vacation. Uh, if you can't afford a nice vacation or things like that, you know, especially people in this area, look where we are. You know, you can... There's so much you can do.
And you just have to take a step back and have a good work-life balance where you try the best you can to enjoy life. You know, I used to work, I used to, um, send out emails a lot on Sundays to my team, because I had time, and I, I worked all, you know, I worked 24/7, right? And I'd send out emails to my team.
And then- I realized, like, a, a, a year or so later, my boss was sending emails to me on a Sunday. And when I sent emails to my team on a Sunday, I never expected them to answer until Monday. Never. But, you know, for the most part, they used to... They did answer. And I realized that if the boss is gonna send you an email on the weekend, you better answer it.
And I didn't get that for a while, and then I stopped doing that. So emails were only Monday through Friday, and not too much Friday afternoon either, unless it was really important. Now, in facilities, we have... We do, we are a 24/7 job, and we have people working 24/7, and there could be emergencies, and then you don't have a choice.
But then if, if your team sees an email from you or a text or a chat, whatever we're u- using, on the weekend, they know it's gonna be important, not just something that, "Hey, are you gonna take... Are we... How do you wanna handle this this we- this week?" And things like that. So I, uh, I stopped doing that, and I think, um, I ho- I, I hope it was appreciated, appreciated.
[00:47:13] Matt Tverberg: Yeah, I, I can say great answer. Work-life balance is what everybody should strive for because you're not doing your best work if it's not balanced elsewhere.
[00:47:24] John Anthenien: Right. Right, and that, and, and I'm, I'm lucky to work for a company and companies that, um, that emphasize the work-life balance.
[00:47:33] Matt Tverberg: Well, John, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you.
Thank you for the insightful conversation. And with that, this has been a- another episode of Make Yourself at Work. I'm Matt Tverberg, and we will see you next time.